the Greater Nomadic Council

Plus CCs come from the great state of Louisiana and are helping to share the grand tradition Community Coffee with a wider audience (And anyway, how can a hipster be against*COMMUNITY* Coffee?)

Because they were idiots, that's why. :)

From your description, it sounds like you and Dani were berated by two young, ratty hippies rather than hipsters. Hipsters aren't generally interested in publically lecturing yuppies about their corporate drinking tastes. It's far more fun to make ironic remarks as one drives buy (and preferrably not in a ratty van).

Get your pejoratives straight! :)

Whatever. Hippies are from the 60s. Furthermore, I'm not a yuppie. Yuppies don't quit promising, well-paying careers to go back to school. :)

Good article. I always like it when people take the time to structure a disciplined argument against something that is so silly that the rest of us couldn't muster the energy to refute with enthusiasm commensurate to that of the offenders. That is, I think most of us have heard of or developed for ourselves most of the arguments Greenfield used, but have never taken the time to combine into an effective diatribe. I say bravo and where's my pie!

Man, that's good squishie. I can't deny feeling a bit conflicted about my liking for Ikea, but these are personal issues - part of me wishes I was making millions of dollars and buying the real thing, part of me wishes I was still destitute and dragging furniture out of dumpsters. The one thing this piece doesn't address is the urban chauvinism of the Starbucks hatred - I think it's true that Starbucks has shut down a lot of independent coffee shops, but these for the most part only existed in very select areas. I personally have a Starbucks vendetta because I associate it with the closing of Java Blvd., a place which over the years has taken on a sort of magical quality in my memory. Of course, I have no idea if there's an actual connection, but it's one of the many irrational prejudices I allow myself - and at least it's based in personal experience, rather than inherited groupthink.

I don't think Starbucks had anything to do with the failing of Java Blvd (where I met Scott the first time, I believe). Coffee shops have always had difficulty staying open in Fort Worth even before Starbucks became an omnipresent coffee god. The Noble Bean's Camp Bowie location, which was always happening, closed over ten years ago. Karma Coffee, though it was in the middle of the university district, only stayed open a short while. Even Four Star closed for a while before it came back. It has managed to stay open by appealing to both students and the museum-going yuppies. Fort Worth is simply lacking the strong youth culture that keeps indie coffee shops open.

I agree with the last comment. I don't know if Starbucks : Java Blvd. :: Wal Mart : Cletus' Tradin Post; I'm sure it has contributed to closings, but I don't think it's the urban scourge that newly-liberated neohippies think it is.

As for the coffee market in Funky Town, I again agree with mallarme. Although Java Blvd. was a nice place (I have fond memories of it too--maybe a story to follow?), and in a nice location, I don't think Starbucks had anything to do with its failure. Just doesn't work in the Big F.

(Btw, The Noble Bean was open as recently as two years ago b/c my younger brother used to go there a lot when he was a senior in HS.) In other FW coffee shop news, the Coffee Haus in Sundance Square has been closed down. While it is a large chain, the one in downtown managed to keep the indie feel because of all the loafers and homeless that stayed there all day. Insiders (some dude I met) say that they were forced out of the Square by the unhappy Bass Brothers and their Basstapo, but I suspect the truth has more to do with higher rents all over downtown (the giant expansion projects) and the shop's inability to keep up. On the other hand (to continue rambling), the other downtown coffee haus, in the railway station, also closed so maybe it was a corporate thing. Dunno.

No, Mike--we had AP History together. I think you were just too cool to notice me :)

One thing you can say for corporate coffee is that it basically created the coffeeshop market outside bohemian quarters in the US--there's got to be a least a dozen Starbucks stores in FW now, not to mention their competitors. When we were teenies there were about 5 coffeehouses total. It's just so difficult to make a bohemian coffeeship profitable outside of college markets where the kids actually by coffee 80% of the time.

It would be nice if the city would consider subsidizing Java Blvd. like environments that would give kids a space to socialize outside of church and athletic contexts, but I suppose the cheapest spaces available would be souless institutional buildings, and even if they found a nice location, the buerocrats/educators would likley invent manifold ways to make it lame. I definitely consider the time I squandered playing chess and yapping at Java Blvd. essential to my personality development, but I'm not sure I'm the model personality....

David,

I heard rumors that people were selling drugs out of Coffee Haus. If someone got busted there, I would'nt be suprised if the Family decided to pull the plug. It's hard to imagine that place not being profitable.

We had a class together? Wow. Guess I had no clue who you were then. :) I just remember playing chess at Java Blvd one night around the Cutco-selling time.

Oh, btw, the Noble Bean I'm talking about was the one by the museums. The one on Bryant Irvin lasted until last December. It closed recently.

Like I said, "I have no idea that there's an actual connection" between Java blvd. and Starbucks. I certainly applaud the changes Starbucks has wrought on the suburban landscape, but they're really only significant from a culinary standpoint - introducing people to the concept of quality coffee. It's a real tragedy that it hasn't been more of a corporate priority for them to help their franchises establish something of the same feel as I'm sure the original had, the sort of community-space essence that we were all so fond of at JB. Even four star never quite had that, though, and certainly a coffee shop without a soul is not a contradiction in terms, but it's a shame that they've become the norm.

Scott--Lovely idea; that would connect the two things most dear to the dirty hippie: coffee shops and socialism. Well done.

True, I do prefer the variety of atmospheres available to me through all the different coffee shops here in Austin. I think Four Star has a little bit of soul though... not much, but more than the cookie-cutter Starbucks.

I actually consider that idea more a crusty old-fashioned one than hippyish. Cities tend to spend large amounts of money to provide after-school diversion to inner-city youth--why not invest a bit for the privledged but bored and culturally starving spawn of suburbia? For example, whatever happened to drug stores where you could show off your manhood by buying your girl a banana split followed by making fun of the people around you? Those were the days.

Maybe if they realized that the alternative is bored suburban kids have sex at the lake and getting high or drunk on the lawn of museums, they might sponsor such things.

But then things would be no fun for the kids. :)

"I certainly applaud the changes Starbucks has wrought on the suburban landscape, but they're really only significant from a culinary standpoint . . . it hasn't been . . . a corporate priority for them to help their franchises establish something of the same feel as I'm sure the original had, the sort of community-space essence that we were all so fond of at JB."

I have to disagree with you Mr. Morris. I'm sure it varies from Starbucks to Starbucks but they have made a commitment to making WiFi available in their stores. From what I've seen and read this has led to a lot of telecommutes making Starbucks their office. And I understand that once the trend of home office workers showing up at coffee houses began Starbucks chose to embrace by pursuing the WiFi connections. This isn't community in the sense of vital and important discussions going on but people are choosing to go there instead of stay at home b/c it is nice to have other human in your proximity even if there is little verbal interaction. I know the Starbucks by the Magnolia theater in Dallas has turned into quite the hang out (the fact that the location is basically the intersection of Gay St. and Hipster Blvd. doesn't hurt) and is a great place to discuss, in important tones, the French film you've just seen or the 5th and 6th installment of Kieslowski's Decalogue.

True, the do have WiFi, which is great, but they charge for it, don't they?

I don't know . . . WiFi is one thing, but when you look at a starbucks location, it simply doesn't seem like a place that's designed for long-term hanging out. The tables tend towards small, the chairs are marginally uncomfortable, and there's a real dearth of couches, armchairs, etc, conducive to long stays, not to mention a sense of "hominess." I think you're absolutely right about people's desire to be around other people, with or without direct interaction - I'll often go to get coffee just to read, and with the specific desire not to talk to anybody. But Starbucks doesn't seem to aim for even the illusion of being truly welcoming - they seem much more specifically designed for people in small groups making a pit stop in the midst of a shopping trip. I don't know, maybe I haven't seen a representative sample of their stores.

Also, your point about the Dallas location is well-taken - given a set of good conditions, Starbucks is certainly available as a community space. But do individual starbucks have the flexibility to host events? We all laugh our asses off at open mics, I'm sure, but along with that you might have musical performances, small-scale theatre, etc, all great things for bringing people together.

Even more egregiously, no Starbucks I've ever been in has had a bulletin board. Would this be so difficult? On that basis alone, I'll retrench my position - screw Starbucks.

"maybe I haven't seen a representative sample of their stores."

Yeah and maybe I'm thinking too much of the one in the West Village that I mentioned earlier. Lots of comfy couches, patio with tables great for people watching and even live music. And being next to an art-house theater helps. But now that I think of it that Starbuck's design is very much the exception. (The funny thing is that with all the talk of the omnipresent Starbucks, there is none in Alexandria).

mallarme, I think you have to pay for T-Mobil service but you don't have to pay Starbucks.

Sleepnotwork, BTW I posted that last one before seeing your latest.

Yeah, I thought you had to pay for access. Whether you're paying T-Mobile or Starbucks, it still sucks. Just about every independent coffee shop in Austin (as well as some movie theaters) offer free WiFi. It's a very, very cheap thing for them to offer that significantly increases their attractiveness to laptop users. Oh well.. a minor quibble. I don't particularly like Starbucks because I don't like the atmosphere or their coffee that much, but I have nothing against them. Just don't frequent them very much, unless I just really need some caffeine and it's the only place available. I agree with snw that they're typically not conducive to hanging out though. I've spent hours at a time at some of the coffee shops here even though I dislike people and can't read with music on in the background (my favorite coffee shop offers a music-free room and earplugs), but I've never been able to spend more than 30 minutes at a Starbucks even though they typically play good music.

mallarme,

Can you expand for this techno idiot on what free WiFi means? Does it basically mean that all you have to have is the correct hardware and you computer automatically detects a connection? If so, is the hardware pretty standard?

That's exactly it. All you need is a WiFi card and have your computer setup for DHCP so that it can be allocated a dynamic IP address, which is how nearly all computers are already configured. So, practically, all you need is a WiFi card and those are fairly cheap now. For laptops it's usually just a little card that you plug in to one of the expansion slots.

Not to get this completely off the rails, but M, have you ever used a USB WiFi port? Those are even cheaper than the cards and I've been tempted to pick one up, but I image their performance isn't all that.

I mean imagine.

I don't have a laptop or a WiFi setup in my house, so no. As for the performance, I haven't heard, though if it's USB 2.0, I don't see why there would be a degradation. Of course, maybe there is. I dunno. :)

Wow . . . longest thread ever!

It looks like the WiFi conversation took the wheels off this juggernaut, but I would like to contribute again.

On the topic of Starbucks' contribution to the education of American palates, I think it has been significant. Even those wonderful hip coffee shops, with comfy couches and free books to read, used to or still do serve pretty crappy coffee. In addition to good beans, good machines, and point of sale education (the clear windows describing the types of beans), baristas go though a fair amount of training before they work. No perfume or cologne is allowed, they have hard limits on the time a brew is allowed to stay on the heating plate, and like Mark said, they are generally friendly people. I don't think you could have said this about any shop before Starbucks changed the market, and there are still a bunch that fail in these categories. (Marc Hamel has read Shultz's book and enjoyed it. Evidently the CEO's motivation was good coffee from the beginning.)

As for the relative dearth of inviting places to sit, that probably helps turnover.

That is all I have.

Well, the coffee is certainly better than at your typical 24 hour diner or other such places where one might have gotten coffee previously, but the volume of beans they purchase prohibits them from buying anything more than mediocre, pre-roasted beans. Truly excellent coffee comes from a high quality bean that has been roasted in the store where it is served. Of course, that's only an issue for coffee snobs, not the rest of us who can't tell the difference between Kenya AA and Kona.

Starbucks is better than four star and better than java blvd used to be; same with the noble bean, coffee haus and the coffee beanary. I cant remember Karma that much. These places dont roast their own beans. I cant think of a single place in FW that does.

Well, I could say something really snarky right here, Dave, but I won't. Especially since only a small percentage of shops in Austin roast their own beans. I will say, though, that the brand of "friendly" I've experienced in my few Starbucks visits is about at the level of a Wal-Mart greeter. I'll take genuine indifference anyday. Anyway, just order a double espresso, or even a plain cup of coffee, instead of that choco-caramel-mochacino bullshit, and you'll earn some respect.

Damn, I'd forgotten about Karma. What a glorious shithole!

(The FW location, that is. The Denton spot was actually really great - I wish there were shops in austin with that sort of huge, open layout.

I disagree with your perception of the barista's demeanor, but that's immaterial. In my defense (?) all I ever order anywhere is espresso or the dark daily roast.

Actually, the Noble Bean roasted their beans on the premises, as did the Coffee Haus (at least, the one in Arlington does (did?)). So does Four Star, afaik.

I think it's important to point out that there are actually 2 different markets for coffee now--1) people on the road or on the way to work who need a fast, high quality fix 2) people who want a pleasant place to hang out. When it comes to the first criteria, I'm more than happy to buy the super sweet cappachino at fucking 7-11, and when I'm on the road I do. But it's no use pretending Starbucks and their new competitors don't blow everyone away in this market. In Boulder there is a Starbucks about 200 meters from my office which is perfect for walking out and getting a quick fix right before class. Once in a while it's fun to try some new caramel or chocolate brew, though I often feel sick afterwards. In any case their turnover is super high. But far, far more often, I go to the coffeeshops about 300 meters away where I can actually hang out or study without feeling like I'm imposing or crowded out by the lines. I buy a normal coffee. Sometimes a latte.

I'm guess I'm pretty much alone here, but for the most part I'm not concerned about the quality of the coffee when I go to a coffeehouse. Certainly, fast and good service, warm coffee, and a good selection of house brews are all pluses, and it is annoying when they are lacking, and I commend Starbucks for showing the way toward these innovations. But for me these things are insignificant compared to atmposphere. I enjoy drinking coffee and people watching at Ol' South as much as ever--in fact I'm often homesick for such things over here--and they serve fucking Folgers.

One more thing--could someone please tell me what the actual Starbucks policy is on whether stores can adapt themselves to local markets (as in the Village)?

I think the question of boycotting Starbucks hinges, first of all, on the following test. Do you like to hang out at your local Starbucks? If not, then if you can (practically) go to Four Star or someplace like it while on your way somewhere needing a coffee fix, then you should, in order to support coffeehouses that support community. But if you like your local Starbucks and its bulletin board offerings, then go there.

And then there's the question of "fair-trade" coffee, which I don't know much about. I understand Starbucks has made legitimate attempts to satisfy these concerns, but they are not enough for some fair-trade activists. Anybody know more about this?